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	<title>Comments on: Rounding up the last week &#8211; Meeting with Bill Richardson</title>
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	<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/</link>
	<description>Moto - Music - Miscellany - Politics</description>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5741</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5741</guid>
		<description>@3 One other comment on why we are at war in the middle east. It is commonly assumed that we are at war to fight for cheap oil. I kind of think that this is not completely accurate. First, the evidence seems to be contradictory. Gas prices have gone up considerably since the war started. So if cheap oil is the desired result we have not been effective in that effort. Second and more importantly I agree with Noam Chomsky&#039;s take on this. He basically argues that th U.S. is fighting in Iraq not for our own oil but to gain an important sphere of influence over there to work as an economic hedge against the Chinese. It is not about our own oil consumption (we have relatively massive reserves) but rather controlling the spigot, so to speak. This will have a long term effect on China&#039;s ultimate future economic potential. These nutbars in the defense department are still fighting a cold war, it&#039;s just that China is the object and not the Soviet Union. That is the only explanation I have read that makes much sense. 

I think there is a somewhat naive notion that if we all ran electric cars or hydrogen vehicles that all our foreign policy escapades would go away. I think there would still be wars, and jockying for control and power. I just hope that we can someday get past this through effective internationalist institutions like the UN and make closed authoritarian institutions like the WTO more open and democratic. That is the way out of these wars in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@3 One other comment on why we are at war in the middle east. It is commonly assumed that we are at war to fight for cheap oil. I kind of think that this is not completely accurate. First, the evidence seems to be contradictory. Gas prices have gone up considerably since the war started. So if cheap oil is the desired result we have not been effective in that effort. Second and more importantly I agree with Noam Chomsky&#8217;s take on this. He basically argues that th U.S. is fighting in Iraq not for our own oil but to gain an important sphere of influence over there to work as an economic hedge against the Chinese. It is not about our own oil consumption (we have relatively massive reserves) but rather controlling the spigot, so to speak. This will have a long term effect on China&#8217;s ultimate future economic potential. These nutbars in the defense department are still fighting a cold war, it&#8217;s just that China is the object and not the Soviet Union. That is the only explanation I have read that makes much sense. </p>
<p>I think there is a somewhat naive notion that if we all ran electric cars or hydrogen vehicles that all our foreign policy escapades would go away. I think there would still be wars, and jockying for control and power. I just hope that we can someday get past this through effective internationalist institutions like the UN and make closed authoritarian institutions like the WTO more open and democratic. That is the way out of these wars in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5739</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:34:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5739</guid>
		<description>I would rather have a pop-up comment option but haven&#039;t found a good solution yet.  Any ideas... now that you hijacked the comment thread?  LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would rather have a pop-up comment option but haven&#8217;t found a good solution yet.  Any ideas&#8230; now that you hijacked the comment thread?  LOL</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5737</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5737</guid>
		<description>Hey Jimmy,

Make your comment box a little taller, it will make editing and posting one&#039;s comments a little easier. Perhaps 10-12 rows high instead of 4

Change this line of code
textarea name=&quot;comment&quot; id=&quot;comment&quot; cols=&quot;60&quot; rows=&quot;4&quot; tabindex=&quot;4&quot;

into

textarea name=&quot;comment&quot; id=&quot;comment&quot; cols=&quot;60&quot; rows=&quot;10&quot; tabindex=&quot;4&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jimmy,</p>
<p>Make your comment box a little taller, it will make editing and posting one&#8217;s comments a little easier. Perhaps 10-12 rows high instead of 4</p>
<p>Change this line of code<br />
textarea name=&#8221;comment&#8221; id=&#8221;comment&#8221; cols=&#8221;60&#8243; rows=&#8221;4&#8243; tabindex=&#8221;4&#8243;</p>
<p>into</p>
<p>textarea name=&#8221;comment&#8221; id=&#8221;comment&#8221; cols=&#8221;60&#8243; rows=&#8221;10&#8243; tabindex=&#8221;4&#8243;</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5736</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 22:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5736</guid>
		<description>I always liked Robert Kennedy Jr.&#039;s comment &quot;Show me a subsidy and I will show you a polluter&quot;. 

Here is a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.mtn.org/iasa/kennedy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fairly succint description of Kennedy&#039;s position on pollution and subsidy&lt;/a&gt;. He has some good points about farming in Idaho and the nuclear industry. I think this is basically true. Subsidy avoids the true economic cost of production and ultimately leads to wasteful inefficiency. But obviously this is not an absolute. I think it is helpful to draw a distinction between investment and subsidy. Obviously, certain industries really need to reach a critical mass to achieve specific economies of scale and it corollary efficiencies. Perhaps the solution lies in coming up with very tight sunset provisions in the appropriations process. We should fund new innovative projects, research, and technologies. Everything needs seed money, works that way with venture captial in the tech world, and R&amp;D in energy industries. I am all for some federal spending or tax breaks to get Bio Diesel, renewable wind energy, lesser environmentally destructive dam building etc. but there has to be explicit limits on it. If after a number of years or dollars an industry or technology cannot acutally be self sufficient, and more importantly environmentally sustainable, then perhaps the industry or technology should just die a graceful death. This goes for nuclear as well. If these power plants can operating in a safe and cost effective way so be it but if they are wholely dependent on subsidies for operational costs then we need to look at that.

@3 Oliver I totally agree. Not enough attention is paid to the real costs of things. This is why I am in favor of a universal recycling program. There should be a recycle bin everywhere there is a trash can. Apart from the environmental benefits, it creates awareness. If someone is visually confronted with a recycle bin and a trash can then they will have to think about trash and reuse etc. I see so much waste and affluence/effluence in this country it boggles the mind. I just drove down to Arizona from Washington. I had some bottled juice with me. I had to drive all the way to the freaking Grand Canyon to even recycle the bottles. Very discouraging. I am sure there are other areas and industries where we can call attention to the waste and process and true economic cost. Why do things have to be artificially cheap? Because we are afraid of a little economic disruption?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always liked Robert Kennedy Jr.&#8217;s comment &#8220;Show me a subsidy and I will show you a polluter&#8221;. </p>
<p>Here is a <a href="http://www.mtn.org/iasa/kennedy.html" rel="nofollow">fairly succint description of Kennedy&#8217;s position on pollution and subsidy</a>. He has some good points about farming in Idaho and the nuclear industry. I think this is basically true. Subsidy avoids the true economic cost of production and ultimately leads to wasteful inefficiency. But obviously this is not an absolute. I think it is helpful to draw a distinction between investment and subsidy. Obviously, certain industries really need to reach a critical mass to achieve specific economies of scale and it corollary efficiencies. Perhaps the solution lies in coming up with very tight sunset provisions in the appropriations process. We should fund new innovative projects, research, and technologies. Everything needs seed money, works that way with venture captial in the tech world, and R&amp;D in energy industries. I am all for some federal spending or tax breaks to get Bio Diesel, renewable wind energy, lesser environmentally destructive dam building etc. but there has to be explicit limits on it. If after a number of years or dollars an industry or technology cannot acutally be self sufficient, and more importantly environmentally sustainable, then perhaps the industry or technology should just die a graceful death. This goes for nuclear as well. If these power plants can operating in a safe and cost effective way so be it but if they are wholely dependent on subsidies for operational costs then we need to look at that.</p>
<p>@3 Oliver I totally agree. Not enough attention is paid to the real costs of things. This is why I am in favor of a universal recycling program. There should be a recycle bin everywhere there is a trash can. Apart from the environmental benefits, it creates awareness. If someone is visually confronted with a recycle bin and a trash can then they will have to think about trash and reuse etc. I see so much waste and affluence/effluence in this country it boggles the mind. I just drove down to Arizona from Washington. I had some bottled juice with me. I had to drive all the way to the freaking Grand Canyon to even recycle the bottles. Very discouraging. I am sure there are other areas and industries where we can call attention to the waste and process and true economic cost. Why do things have to be artificially cheap? Because we are afraid of a little economic disruption?</p>
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		<title>By: Darci</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5734</link>
		<dc:creator>Darci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 21:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5734</guid>
		<description>Precisely, Oliver.  That is exactly the kind of accounting question that we never hear the answer to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Precisely, Oliver.  That is exactly the kind of accounting question that we never hear the answer to.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5728</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:53:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5728</guid>
		<description>my feeling is, if you&#039;re talking subsidies, you should include EVERYTHING that taxpayers pay to provide for an energy source. For example, should we include the cost of our military when we calculate the true cost of oil? Seems to me one of the main reasons we have used our military recently is to protect our access to cheap foreign oil.  Think about it -- if we didn&#039;t have to rely on the Middle East for oil, would we need the incredibly massive military that we pay for in this country?

From this angle, then, the &quot;subsidies&quot; for nuclear power or some alternative energy doesn&#039;t seem so bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my feeling is, if you&#8217;re talking subsidies, you should include EVERYTHING that taxpayers pay to provide for an energy source. For example, should we include the cost of our military when we calculate the true cost of oil? Seems to me one of the main reasons we have used our military recently is to protect our access to cheap foreign oil.  Think about it &#8212; if we didn&#8217;t have to rely on the Middle East for oil, would we need the incredibly massive military that we pay for in this country?</p>
<p>From this angle, then, the &#8220;subsidies&#8221; for nuclear power or some alternative energy doesn&#8217;t seem so bad.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5723</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 19:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5723</guid>
		<description>Subsidization comes out of our pockets through the tax breaks.  It also contributes to less competition in those markets.  Between that and the backroom deals with our current energy policy it is a big giveaway... at taxpayer expense.  There must be a happy medium in there somewhere but I don&#039;t know what that is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Subsidization comes out of our pockets through the tax breaks.  It also contributes to less competition in those markets.  Between that and the backroom deals with our current energy policy it is a big giveaway&#8230; at taxpayer expense.  There must be a happy medium in there somewhere but I don&#8217;t know what that is.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Darci</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2006/07/25/rounding-up-the-last-week/comment-page-1/#comment-5721</link>
		<dc:creator>Darci</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Jul 2006 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/?p=257#comment-5721</guid>
		<description>I would really like to know if nuclear power is so much more heavily subsidized than oil or hydropower.  An honest and full accounting of subsides for all current power sources would really be interesting to see.  And what do you mean, Jimmy, when you say, &quot;[...]I agreed that it probably shouldn’t be subsidised in these markets&quot;?  For some reason I couldn&#039;t really follow that point.

Regarding WA&#039;s minimum wage, I think it&#039;s one of the finest aspects of living in this state.  I&#039;m proud of our state government for doing it, and I have not one ounce of sympathy for businesses who cry about it.  The only shame is that all states don&#039;t have similar minimum wage levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would really like to know if nuclear power is so much more heavily subsidized than oil or hydropower.  An honest and full accounting of subsides for all current power sources would really be interesting to see.  And what do you mean, Jimmy, when you say, &#8220;[...]I agreed that it probably shouldn’t be subsidised in these markets&#8221;?  For some reason I couldn&#8217;t really follow that point.</p>
<p>Regarding WA&#8217;s minimum wage, I think it&#8217;s one of the finest aspects of living in this state.  I&#8217;m proud of our state government for doing it, and I have not one ounce of sympathy for businesses who cry about it.  The only shame is that all states don&#8217;t have similar minimum wage levels.</p>
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