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	<title>Comments on: Wrestling Pigs&#8230; Do The Pigs Always Win?</title>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2007/11/30/wrestling-pigs-do-the-pigs-always-win/comment-page-1/#comment-68902</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 00:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/2007/11/30/wrestling-pigs-do-the-pigs-always-win/#comment-68902</guid>
		<description>I suppose if Rudy would stop being the &quot;September 11th&quot; candidate (spittle and all), I&#039;d think of him more than swine.   But between that and his poor foreign policy explanations well...  

Huckabee seems nice but I have the same sharp right turn concern.  

Pretty much all of the R candidates are suffering the revenge of the evangelical right in that to get elected, they are going to have to convince a very devisive faction.  That&#039;s messy business since the rest of us have had enough of that.

I&#039;m still a Biden fan on the D side.  As the whole primary soap opera unfolds, I like him even more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose if Rudy would stop being the &#8220;September 11th&#8221; candidate (spittle and all), I&#8217;d think of him more than swine.   But between that and his poor foreign policy explanations well&#8230;  </p>
<p>Huckabee seems nice but I have the same sharp right turn concern.  </p>
<p>Pretty much all of the R candidates are suffering the revenge of the evangelical right in that to get elected, they are going to have to convince a very devisive faction.  That&#8217;s messy business since the rest of us have had enough of that.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still a Biden fan on the D side.  As the whole primary soap opera unfolds, I like him even more.</p>
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		<title>By: Iggy</title>
		<link>http://www.mccranium.org/2007/11/30/wrestling-pigs-do-the-pigs-always-win/comment-page-1/#comment-68874</link>
		<dc:creator>Iggy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Dec 2007 20:32:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mccranium.org/2007/11/30/wrestling-pigs-do-the-pigs-always-win/#comment-68874</guid>
		<description>Since you brought the subject of an R debate up......

To say it was an emotionally charged part of the debate is an understatement, however I think Rudy did the best as far as not trying to whitewash the issue in binary/black-and-white/you&#039;re-either-legal or-an-evil-lawbreaker terms.

I think he wanted to talk in terms of pragmatism, humanness, and rationality..... but it is so freakin&#039; hard in a 30 and 90 second rebuttal format.

As an actual....well......Republican I found the debate more open and frank than I would have guessed.  It helped me come closer to a personal decision in which way to go in the primary and caucus.

Thompson is increasingly like the tired and grumpy uncle that is wise beyond his years, but wants to beat the impetuous nephew (played by the American public) up.  He&#039;s out.

Where I had personally lumped Romney and Huckabee together I totally see those two as different people now.  Romney scares the bejeezus out of me for his ultra-conservative views and the evasiveness he showed about torture totally turned me off.  I hope he doesn&#039;t make it.

I liked Huckabee a whole bunch more after the debate, but I can&#039;t help thinking that he&#039;s telling me what my moderate heart to hear and he wouldn&#039;t turn righty after 6 months into office.  Somehow I don&#039;t think he&#039;s done yet.

Tinfoil Hat Man actually uttered the words &quot;Tri-lateral Commission&quot;.  Other than watching McCain shake his head most of the time standing next to him....nuff said.

There were two other guys I can&#039;t remember names of, but they really just need to stop and think about 2012 or go wherever they should go.

Before this debate I had a four-way race in my mind with McCain, Giuliani,  Thompson, and the composite effigy of Romney/Huckabee.

Not now though.

For me it&#039;s now a two way race between McCain and Giuliani.   Giuliani&#039;s pragmatic perspective as large city administrator, leadership style, and practical oratory convince me he would be a good President.  The warts of him not being the perfect R candidate endear him even more with me.  Something that probably would be discussed in D circles is that he probably would be the best R candidate if Hillary makes it.

I still can&#039;t quite fathom McCain&#039;s view on staying the course in Iraq, but if anybody has the authority to know....it would be McCain.  His patience is astounding and also would be a good President...although I should not I thought this  in 2000.  He would have handled post 9/11 far better than the Cheny/Bush show and voted for him then in the primary and caucus.

His fiscal conservancy (which the party has abandoned heretofore) is needed now more than ever. 

So, long way around to your point Jimm is I didn&#039;t see the debate as a pig-fest.  I saw it as emotional tension in a crowded field of a party that can still field a good candidate if it tries to be honest.   The D wonk speculation on whether the debate were worthwhile or not....maybe isn&#039;t the point for D&#039;s to worry about.  I&#039;ll leave to you to decide who your best candidate should be. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since you brought the subject of an R debate up&#8230;&#8230;</p>
<p>To say it was an emotionally charged part of the debate is an understatement, however I think Rudy did the best as far as not trying to whitewash the issue in binary/black-and-white/you&#8217;re-either-legal or-an-evil-lawbreaker terms.</p>
<p>I think he wanted to talk in terms of pragmatism, humanness, and rationality&#8230;.. but it is so freakin&#8217; hard in a 30 and 90 second rebuttal format.</p>
<p>As an actual&#8230;.well&#8230;&#8230;Republican I found the debate more open and frank than I would have guessed.  It helped me come closer to a personal decision in which way to go in the primary and caucus.</p>
<p>Thompson is increasingly like the tired and grumpy uncle that is wise beyond his years, but wants to beat the impetuous nephew (played by the American public) up.  He&#8217;s out.</p>
<p>Where I had personally lumped Romney and Huckabee together I totally see those two as different people now.  Romney scares the bejeezus out of me for his ultra-conservative views and the evasiveness he showed about torture totally turned me off.  I hope he doesn&#8217;t make it.</p>
<p>I liked Huckabee a whole bunch more after the debate, but I can&#8217;t help thinking that he&#8217;s telling me what my moderate heart to hear and he wouldn&#8217;t turn righty after 6 months into office.  Somehow I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s done yet.</p>
<p>Tinfoil Hat Man actually uttered the words &#8220;Tri-lateral Commission&#8221;.  Other than watching McCain shake his head most of the time standing next to him&#8230;.nuff said.</p>
<p>There were two other guys I can&#8217;t remember names of, but they really just need to stop and think about 2012 or go wherever they should go.</p>
<p>Before this debate I had a four-way race in my mind with McCain, Giuliani,  Thompson, and the composite effigy of Romney/Huckabee.</p>
<p>Not now though.</p>
<p>For me it&#8217;s now a two way race between McCain and Giuliani.   Giuliani&#8217;s pragmatic perspective as large city administrator, leadership style, and practical oratory convince me he would be a good President.  The warts of him not being the perfect R candidate endear him even more with me.  Something that probably would be discussed in D circles is that he probably would be the best R candidate if Hillary makes it.</p>
<p>I still can&#8217;t quite fathom McCain&#8217;s view on staying the course in Iraq, but if anybody has the authority to know&#8230;.it would be McCain.  His patience is astounding and also would be a good President&#8230;although I should not I thought this  in 2000.  He would have handled post 9/11 far better than the Cheny/Bush show and voted for him then in the primary and caucus.</p>
<p>His fiscal conservancy (which the party has abandoned heretofore) is needed now more than ever. </p>
<p>So, long way around to your point Jimm is I didn&#8217;t see the debate as a pig-fest.  I saw it as emotional tension in a crowded field of a party that can still field a good candidate if it tries to be honest.   The D wonk speculation on whether the debate were worthwhile or not&#8230;.maybe isn&#8217;t the point for D&#8217;s to worry about.  I&#8217;ll leave to you to decide who your best candidate should be. <img src='http://www.mccranium.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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